Ackley and Smoak

[Igoe4Mariners]

Were supposed to be the center pieces to the future of the M's offense. If they don't start hitting like they're "supposed to" in the next year or so, the Mariners will continue to have a below average offense for the 5-8 years. You can only miss on so many top prospects...

[TellItToTheDA]

I wouldn't go lumping those two together. Yes, both were highly heralded coming in. But, Smoak seems to have established himself as a guy that hits .230 with 25 homers in a season (at least that's how I see his numbers playing out). Ackley meanwhile, while struggling, seems to be grappling with the dreaded sophomore slump, a la Troy Tulowitzki, whose average dropped 30 points, and his OBP nearly 40 points in his second season. Basically, Ackley still doesn't concern me long term. Smoak? He's hit the thousand at bat mark. What we've seen is what we'll get. I'm getting near the point where I'd like to see the 30 year old raking in AAA get a chance (http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=455921). James Loney and Mike Napoli are free agents this offseason as well.

[worldwideed]

I sincerely believe that Smaok will heat up with the weather. He does just great on the road/in warmer cities. Yes he'll probably never threaten .300 but the smoak-bombs will come.

Ackley, I'm not so sure about. I think he was way better in the leadoff spot and would like to see what happens when he is place there for good.

As far as answers go, have I none. :p

[Igoe4Mariners]

Dave grills on Smoak at USSM

http://www.ussmariner.com/2012/06/26/giving-up-on-justin-smoak/

[JosephC]

I thought Saunders was washed up, done, finished, toast.... and then he breaks out this year. But, I still don't think Smoak will contribute to this team. Ackley, I think he can. Honestly though, I have no idea anymore. P.S. Did anyone see how Brian LaHair is doing? Yeah, I wish we had him.

[worldwideed]

LaHair and Morse are both good examples of what a player can do with a move and some extra seasoning, which requires a patience fan base, unfortunately this org no longer had the right to ask people to be patient. Is that the answer for Smaok, maybe. I could see him catching on somewhere else (warmer) and hitting 30 jacks. Where that might, I have not idea.

[Nateyb24]

I am not ready to move on from Smoak i don't think he will ever hit for a high average because his swing won't allow for it and he is slow but i think it's to soon to give up on him.

We did that quickly with other players and they move on and finally get it even Adrian Gonzalez struggled in Texas for 2 seasons and why they traded him away to San Diego for basically nothing.

[evergreenmachine]

It is very depressing to see two of our prospects regressing badly this year. I'll give them both a year more (July 1 2013 to be exact) at which point you need to seriously consider changes.

On a related point - when does a culture of rebuilding simply become a culture of losing? The one thing I have not seen this year from the mariners that worries me is some character or grit or general toughness. Wheres the battling at every at bat? Where's the tough take out slides? Where the brush back after back to back homers?

I'm not saying the guys and staff arent working their butts off, I work with some of them and they bring a lot of energy and dedication to the job. But at some point some one needs to throw down the gauntlet and say get tough this isn't aaa anymore!

[TellItToTheDA]

LaHair and Morse are both good examples of what a player can do with a move and some extra seasoning, which requires a patience fan base, unfortunately this org no longer had the right to ask people to be patient. Is that the answer for Smaok, maybe. I could see him catching on somewhere else (warmer) and hitting 30 jacks. Where that might, I have not idea.

If we're looking at 1,000 major league at bats as the point at which a player has received enough time to show their worth, LaHair and Morse legitimately did not receive long enough looks.

Morse: 299 at-bats over four seasons in Seattle
LaHair: 136 at-bats at the end of 2008

But Smoak?

1,035 and counting. Frankly, I think we've seen enough to know what we have. A guy that will hit .220-.230 with 20-25 homers. The guy has three god damn doubles this season. I'm about out of patience.

But, if you want to send him down to AAA to work on things. Bring up Luis Jimenez and give him a shot.

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=455921

Sure, he's 30. He's also hitting .326 with 19 doubles and 11 homers, with 44 walks to 48 strikeouts. Maybe I'm just calling up the ghost of Bucky Jacobsen, but I'm ready to give him a shot.

[Mariners51]

What about the fact Smoak doesn't have 1000 at bats from both sides of the plate yet? I think that is a fair argument.

[evergreenmachine]

What about the fact Smoak doesn't have 1000 at bats from both sides of the plate yet? I think that is a fair argument.

Hadn't thought of it like that but it's a good argument. Plus playing in safeco would skew numbers a bit. But the 3 doubles thing is surprising...how does that happen? Too many fly balls I would guess

This all gets back to my point above, when does rebuilding culture = allowing failure. Smoak biggest dent this year hasn't been his performance but his mental toughness as showcased in fencesgate2012. When the new citi field was built and the fences obviously too deep you didn't hear David weight complaining to the press.

Change your approach, hit the ball on a rope for the gaps, rack 40 doubles and 120 ribs a year smoakie!

[bigsexyy81]

I love the 'playing in Safeco' excuse for lack of home runs, especially when Cespeda just got done absolutely crushing one last night (had to have been 430 ft?) and hit another one today.

[Igoe4Mariners]

Smoak has THREE doubles? JUST THREE in half a season? LOL.

[Nateyb24]

I love the 'playing in Safeco' excuse for lack of home runs, especially when Cespeda just got done absolutely crushing one last night (had to have been 430 ft?) and hit another one today.

It's a legitimate excuse when you look at the numbers i know it seems like the teams that play against us come in here and just crush the ball but if you go look at stats teams that come here struggle a lot to.

[bigsexyy81]

“You get frustrated,” he said. “You go up there and try and put yourself in the best position to succeed. You crush a ball and it goes nowhere.” - Justin Smoak

It sure as hell goes somewhere after it leaves Cespeda's bat.

I know it's harder to homer in Safeco, I just had Smoak's comments on my mind as I watched Cespeda destroy the ball.

[Nateyb24]

I am giving up on Smoak now but in his defense it sure sounded like the media was prodding at him trying to get him to say something bad about hitting in Safeco.

http://blog.thenewstribune.com/mariners/2012/06/13/justin-smoak-talks-about-hitting-in-safeco-and-a-few-random-thoughts-of-my-own/

[bigsexyy81]

Good point.