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clarknova
07-15-2012, 08:33 PM
I know you've all seen me whining about the lineups in the chatbox, so I thought I'd post a thread to discuss them. Honestly, I'd appreciate some feedback that might help to calm me down about it, because I really would like some levity on the subject. Today, for instance- This is why I was irritated:

-Brendan Ryan hit lead off. I know he had a double, but I believe in process. Basically, it is my opinion that Brendan Ryan doesn't give the team the best chance to win in the lead off spot based on his plate approach, and the fact that he hit a double doesn't change that for me at all. He could have hit 4 home runs, and I would still not want him hitting first... Well, ok, in that case... I'd look pretty stupid and stubborn to want to put him back at 9, but I hope that makes sense. I guess I understand moving guys around to see if magic happens, but he's one of the worst hitters on the team (and that is saying something) and you're putting him in a position to get more at bats then your better hitters. THAT is what bothers me about it. His .183 batting average.

-Saunders in the 8 hole. Saunders is a young hitter that is playing well and needs AB's against tough pitchers. He should be playing almost every day. My opinion. He should not hit in the bottom third of the order. He has the third highest batting average on the team. He should not be losing AB's by sitting, or hitting low in the order.

-Ackley sits. Ok, I understand he isn't beating the world at the plate still. I don't see how sitting him helps. He has done SO much better with his stride, even though he's still opening up early (I'm starting to get it), he's gotten much better and has been hitting the ball much better and not looking so ridiculous at the plate. He needs to learn to hit everyone, every day. He's an every day player. He should almost never sit unless he's just bombing and not taking coaching, but just as he starts to improve, sitting him? I'm not a fan. I don't think if he'd gone 0-4 it would have set him back to the "start over" point. My opinion only.

Olivo? Whatever. Jaso can't hit lefties. The last three seasons he's hit .179 against them in limited chances, because he's been very strictly platooned. Go with Olivo, who's hitting .222 against lefties this year, what the hell else are we going to do?
Figgins? Yeah, if you're going to sit Ackley, that's what happens. Chone freaking Figgins.

So, that's one line up. Maybe I'm overreacting by being irritated by it. It certainly isn't the first time, but apparently there's some method to it that I'm not understanding. I don't believe that just because you're on a big league roster as a bench player that you still should get at bats if you suck, and you're not part of the future. I do not agree with that. You could platoon, pinch hit, fill in during injury, or the RARE off day. That's it.

I get that Harrison destroys lefties, so I felt a bit better about the line up. I still feel that these guys are going to have to learn to hit good pitchers that throw from the side they're not good at hitting. And, I think a bigger problem for me is that they're being platooned with garbage hitters because we have nothing else. So it's like, yeah, play Olivo- he has a 10% better statistical chance of getting a hit. What does it matter that he'll allow a pass ball, it's not like we're going to score any runs to compensate. That's what it feels like it's down to, and it's frustrating.

Igoe4Mariners
07-15-2012, 09:54 PM
I understand everything that you said and had many of the same questions. Benching Ackley, playing Chone Figgins and putting Brendan Ryan, a SUB .200 hitter at LEADOFF is fucking ridiculous. Like honestly I would come back with a very long post ripping the lineups, but I think you just about nailed everything.

evergreenmachine
07-16-2012, 12:14 PM
I agree it's sad and shows a general lack of focus from the management team

On the other hand Felix as awesome Saturday and that takes care if lineup issues

Ps what a chat box an can I get it mobile?

clarknova
07-16-2012, 02:23 PM
Today's lineup:

1. Ackley 2B
2. Ichiro RF
3. Wells LF
4. Montero C
5. Smoak 1B
6. Seager 3B
7. Olivo DH
8. Saunders CF
9. Ryan SS

Ok, so people complaining about Jaso not hitting against Sanchez? Meh. Jaso really doesn't hit lefties, and righties are destroying Sanchez this year. So Olivo in this case, isn't infuriating. If we platoon them for the most part, I actually have less of an issue with that. Olivo is DH'ing and sporting a sub .200 Batting average. Jose Vidro, in the year he was run out of town was hitting .234 with 7 home runs after his 85th and final game. His only other year in Seattle (2007) he hit .314. Not to be one of those "list depressing statistics guys", because I hate that, but my point is, this is where we're at. Vidro hit .314, then his next year he made it a little over half way through because he was hitting .234. Carl Everett made it 92 games and was hitting .227, but had 11 home runs. Miguel Olivo is basically 2003 Jeff Cirillo. Any criticism of him is totally fair, and anyone who would rather see Jaso, or Peguero hit today is being totally reasonable.

My issue with Saunders at 8 is unchanged. Seager is hitting too low and behind Smoak. I don't like that either. I'd go:

1. Ackley
2. Saunders
3. Wells
4. Seager
5. Montero
6. Smoak
7. Ichiro
8. Olivo
9. Ryan

Knowing Ichiro is not moving from #2, and if I had to hit him there, I'd go:

1. Ackley
2. Ichiro
3. Saunders
4. Seager
5. Wells
6. Montero
7. Smoak
8. Olivo
9. Ryan

Somebody tell me I'm being ridiculous.

clarknova
07-16-2012, 02:33 PM
Oh, and to be clear: This is in NO WAY me saying that Wedge needs to go. That would be a mistake. This is me saying, when we can't get anything going, are we putting ourselves in the best chance to win every day, or are we costing ourselves momentum and AB's from better players by these line ups? I think it means a lot less than I may sound like I'm making it out, and maybe I'm picking a nit with it, but it's confusing and sometimes frustrating for me when we're doing so poorly. That is all.

Igoe4Mariners
07-16-2012, 02:44 PM
Jose Vidro would have been a cleanup caliber hitter on this year's squad.

clarknova
07-16-2012, 03:21 PM
Remember when Richie Sexson was complaining that the fans booing were only making it worse? after 88 games in his last full season as a Mariner he was hitting .201 but had 15 home runs. At that point in the season, we had 5 hitters in the starting 9 hitting .280 or better. Ichiro was hitting .350. We had two... TWO hitters hitting below .270. Sexson, and Ibanez.

We were facing a line up that day that featured 7 hitters who were batting above .289. 6 of which were hitting .297 or better. The 2007 Detriot Tigers.

I know we're in a rebuild, and "let the youngsters play" year, but there is no reason we need to accept a sub-.200 batting average from a 10 year veteran who is not part of the future. BOOOOOO! BOOOOOOOOOOOO!

evergreenmachine
07-16-2012, 05:44 PM
Clarknova - you are be rediculous. Your thought process is way to rationale to be managing the mariners lol

evergreenmachine
07-16-2012, 05:48 PM
Ps just FYI mariners have 7 runs in first two inn

clarknova
07-16-2012, 06:22 PM
Ps just FYI mariners have 7 runs in first two inn

must have been the line up card. :p

evergreenmachine
07-17-2012, 08:50 AM
It was really all Casper wells, who you kept in the three hole anyway except in your last version. He, Saunders and Wilhelmsem are bright spots of 2012. Maybe also Seager depending On his finish

BigMoney
07-21-2012, 11:01 PM
Brendan Ryan needs to be hidden in the end of the line up.

evergreenmachine
07-22-2012, 01:15 PM
Seager for short, liddi for third

clarknova
07-22-2012, 06:10 PM
liddi for third

I'm with you on the second half, but unfortunately we can't have Liddi play third because we have Figgins... Who not many seem to mind having on the roster.

LeFrançais
07-24-2012, 03:07 PM
Give Saunders a look at leadoff for some games. Top third of lineup Saunders, Wells,Ackley. Middle Montero, Seager, 1B (Smoak when ready, Carp if ready...). Bottom third Jaso or Olivo, Ryan or Kawasaki, Robinson or Peguero.

206HoopsFan
07-24-2012, 03:35 PM
Brendan Ryan needs to be hidden in the end of the line up.

If only designated fielder was a real position.